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This is an “anti-Mormon” site by Mormon definition. Anything that speaks negatively about the church and its claims is considered “anti”, and we at Zelph are fascinated by every side of Mormonism, and regularly discuss the negative aspects of church history. However, one thing we don’t do (contrary to most Mormons’ perceptions of “anti-Mormons”) is make it our business to insult others and personally attack them/try to hurt them. SOME (note: only some) Mormons, however, haven’t been so kind. Here are some gems. General authorities, if you’re reading this—hopefully this post inspires you for a topic for your next conference talk! And Mormons—it’s time to realize that you can debate an issue without resorting to attacking an individual. Use the examples of other great members of your church who manage to always stay civil and respectful, treating people like the children of God they believe them to be.

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You having an excuse for being a weak kneed coward doesn’t change how pathetic and sad you are. You spend hours hiding behind your computer screen “writing” (or reposting what you read somewhere else) your asinine filth because you’re too afraid of people knowing the real you. And you actually have the gumption to tell yourself you have “courage.” No matter how many people tell you otherwise, let’s be honest, you know you’re pitiful.” 

Say what you want about this guy, he sure knows how to use the word “gumption”, and for that, WE APPLAUD YOU, D-TOWN!

Love,

A pitiful 23-year-old girl

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“Zina is a leftist, and wholly dedicated to that religion, and one cannot serve two masters.” 

Sorry, Loran. I’m a libertarian Ron Paul lover who can’t even vote.

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“I’m sure [Zelph] don’t do anything to alleviate the problems they see in the world, but they’re more than willing to whine about how to spend other people’s money (typical liberals).”

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“Your stuff is the same dry, anti-Mormon liberal whining there’s always been.”

Sensing a bit of a political theme here…

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“She probably has to hide behind a pseudonym until this site brings in enough money to make up for what will be lost from her pro-Mormon site.”

It’s proving incredibly easy to bring in more than 45 cents a day with Zelph on the Shelf, actually.

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“Anonymous Internet coward”

Nothing screams “coward” like speaking out against something and losing dozens of friends over it! (And nothing screams “anonymous” like announcing your site in a podcast downloaded by tens of thousands of people!)

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“In the end you’ll go the way of many others, fade into obscurity, and probably live out a sad existence. Go ahead and wallow your hours away on this blog writing from a dark room, hiding your faces and at the end of your life you’ll look back and realize you’ve amounted to nothing while at the same time Christ’s church and its members will be doing just fine. Get a life.”

My life is a thrilling cocktail of setting puppies on fire, stealing oversized chaise longs from furniture stores, and inventing lies about the LDS church. Though I actually rent an apartment with an excessive number of windows because I enjoy light so much—and I have Christmas lights and candles lit constantly, so there is always wonderfully ambient lighting when I’m writing. Appreciate the concern about cataracts though! You seem to really want the best for people!

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“Spineless”

My chiropractor must be even better than I realized.

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“You will fall as chaff, and be burned as chaff”

So poetry!

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“Apparently you have no earthly clue how logic and reason work . . . Are you sure you graduated from 3rd grade?”

No.

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Zina Jacobs-Smith-Young
Zina Jacobs-Smith-Young
Zina Jacobs-Smith-Young would have been a millennial blogger, but she died in 1901. The wife of Brigham Young, and prior to that Joseph Smith, and prior to that Henry Jacobs, who was sent on a mission by Brigham before he married her, Zina loves writing, long walks on the beach, and playing the field.
  • BusterH

    keep it up! 😀

  • k_space

    The last one is my favorite. “Earthly clue” sounds so Mormony.

    Someone who ignores scientific and historical evidence in favor of an emotional experience called “feeling the spirit” has no right to complain about anybody’s logic and reasoning.

  • Mormons are all nice and sweet until you reject their religion. They’re sort of like the so-called “Nice Guys” who are only pleasant to women until they find out that the woman they’re after won’t have sex with them for being nice. Then they turn all aggressive and nasty.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8teRxOSNHs

  • Moroni Fielding Kimball

    Pitiful is the logic employed by those who buy into the idea that the same god who fought a war in heaven over our ability to choose freely, later sent an angel with a sword to force a man to enter into polygamy or be destroyed. Who accept for the only true moral principal “obey god”, no matter how monstrous god’s commands. That is pitiful.

    • Shem

      Gotta love the “The angel made me do it” defense. I’m sure there are some cheating husbands that would love to use that on their wives when they finally get caught. A lot of people don’t realize that Oliver Cowdery left the church because found out about Smith having sex with Fanny Alger and wouldn’t accept that an angel made him do it.

    • charles rivera

      Not to mention paying 10% of their gross earnings for the privilege of more than one wife in the afterlife, woohoo! Then they have to clean their toilets because the church can’t “afford” *cough! cough!* janitorial service like they did back in the day [*cough! City Creek Mall cough!*). This after Time magazine says they earn a gajillion dollars a year in contributions. They have flawless financial plans: IF you’re a GA! Then again they spend 3++ hours at church and other meetings just to be told “be good”. Isn’t it wonderful? Isn’t it marvelous?

      • You probably really teach people, the reason we pay 10% is for the privilege of having more than one wife in the afterlife don’t you…? Never once have I considered that when paying tithing or doing anything in the Church really. Some people will but it’s not a tenant to lay your hat on. Common now above the waist fella.

        • charles rivera

          Not a chance, MormonFan! You can spot sarcasm, yes? I teach people that Mormons pay 10% so that GAs can maintain their wealth, and to hell with poor people. That was the deal back in Joseph’s day, the tradition continues down to today. Else, why the emphasis on paying tithes first before anything else, including one’s own survival?

          • Really? That is your best assumption as to where tithes go? Its a nice speculation for someone who cannot see anything positive in the Church or it’s leaders, however it is baseless.

          • charles rivera

            Indeed! The church has kept its financial dealings close to their garments and no one, NO ONE, outside of their holy of holiest circles knows where the money really, truly goes. Not full tithe payers, not honest members, not even YOU, MormonFan. No matter how hard you pray, no matter how many days you fast in a month, you will never know.
            However, EVERYONE knows that City Creek Mall was built from the ground up through tithing, faithful members just deny it did. EVERYONE knows that the church purchased prime property in Florida.
            Now, we know that Jesus wants us for a sunbeam, but what does he want a mall for? What does Jesus want with condos or prime land in warm and sunny Florida? Retirement perhaps?

          • You do know that there is a business portion of “the church” and a religious portion right? Mormons invented the first shopping mall it was called ZCMI. so you’re getting mad at us for doing something we invented? That “prime Realestate” in Florida is used for cattle grazing…

            Also Mormonism doesn’t see itself as just another religion Mormonism sees itself as a kingdom. We see ourselves as a group of people that can survive and operate in the event of anything. Even s governmental shut down or natural disaster. That is one reason why the church owns many farms, bread factories, cattle ranches, orange orchards, bee farms, a pasta factory, flour mills etc. and yes even shopping malls and office buildings. The parable of the talents apply here. If God gives you a talent (or money) are you supposed to hide it? (Keep it stored in a bank) or wisely invest it? (Create thousand ms of Jobs and bring in hundreds of millions of dollars to Utahs economy)

            There is a lot to say about all of these things but was doesn’t need to be said is you have little idea as to what you’re actually talking about.

          • Bob Smith

            You’re right, the Mormon church has had a long history of treating itself like an earthly kingdom, so it’s not that they are doing anything different than they always have. Joseph Smith was onto something with that Council of Fifty and what-not. So you are correct in saying holding them against their own standard does indeed show that they haven’t changed in the last 185 years.

            Of course, whether or not what the church is doing is in line with the “primitive church” which it claims to represent — you know, that Article of Faith that claims that we “believe in the same organization that existed in the primitive church”, right? Or even whether what it does with its money is remotely related to any of Christ’s message (except perhaps the parable of the unjust steward) is another matter entirely. In that department, it seems to be doing pretty dismally, if I do say so myself.

            The church does share about (i.e. brag about) its humanitarian aid / charitable contributions to society… of course that appears to be coming in at something between 1-2% of it’s income, which is less than most corporations give if I’m not mistaken. Not to mention that all the tax-deductible money people are throwing at the church is money the government can’t get a cut from, so non-members have to shoulder a higher tax burden that supports social services, infrastructure, the war in Iraq that Gordon B. Hinckley was totally cool with, etc.

          • charles rivera

            “That “prime Realestate” (sic) in Florida is used for cattle grazing…”Keep telling yourself that if it makes you sleep easy at night. Do you even get how ludicrous it sounds?

          • At the time I wrote that, that is what it was being used for. http://www.livestockweekly.com/papers/01/01/25/whldeseret.asp

            Agreed that it will likely be developed into a more profitable venture eventually.

          • charles rivera

            Baseless? You tell me, what do you get out of your tithing? The teachings of Jesus should be free to all, Mormons don’t have a corner on the “golden rule”.

            The teachings of Joseph Smith on the other hand costs 10% of your gross income, a minimum 3 hours in church serving and saying the same things over and over, CLEANING TOILETS on weekends, BUYING and wearing garments that should be covered by tithing, and watching with idiotic, brainwashed glee as condos and high end department stores are built using 3rd world country tithing which YOU are unable to purchase or own, and in which you can never shop.

          • To build a Church Building costs at least a million dollars… I have a heated/cooled furnished building that I can use basically anytime I want for family reunions, wedding receptions, playing basketball, community activities. I have piece of mind knowing if I came into a real financial struggle that The Church would be there to help me. I can go to free concerts every week downtown and hear the mormon tabernacle choir, other larger events and concerts throughout the year, I have a network of free classes and services to take, if i needed employment I could use the free recourses there, in college around 1/2 of my tuition was paid for through tithing (along with all other LDS Students attending church schools)…

            there are more but those are off the top of my head. I agree that these things could be obtained for free from members who do not pay tithing or from people who do not affiliate with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints but there is not doubt that tithing goes into these areas of which I gladly partake when needed.

            Teachings of Jesus are free to all. You don’t need to pay tithing to come to Church. If you want to live by all of Jesus’ teachings then you need to pay tithing.

            So I’ve been a member of the LDS Church for 27 years. I have only been assigned to “CLEAN TOILETS” or rather help other clean the church building 4 times my entire life… When you have 3 wards in one building and 100 or so families per ward it means you’d likely be assigned to do that once every 6 years…

            “watching with idiotic, brainwashed glee as condos and high end department stores are built using 3rd world country tithing which YOU are unable to purchase or own, and in which you can never shop.” Again this is baseless because condos and high end department stores were not built with tithing.

          • charles rivera

            Bravo, sir/madam. Well done! The Mormon church has successfully told you what to think, without so much as hinting to you, or to anyone really, where exactly the money goes. Pat yourself on the back, for you have led yourself to believe that you get all these things ‘for free’ or ‘when needed’, all the while paying 10% and more of your income for the rest of your life. Well done!

            Jesus had no need for million dollar structures and fancy design. The BOM condemned such worldly aspiration as being in the “LARGE AND SPACIOUS BUIlDING”.

            “You don’t need to pay tithing to come to Church.” — BUT you cannot enter the Temple, and the men folk will be unable to advance through the priesthood. Period. Try it, you or someone you know should stop paying your tithes. Let’s see come December if you are not “reminded” by the bishop, and if you will ever get a recommend. Or if some high councilman does not stop by one Sunday to give a “talk” about paying the Lord his dues. Oh, the tales I could tell about hidden and overt Mormon greed.

            The truth is neither you or I KNOW for sure where the Mormon billions go every year. We are left only to observe, to form implications and conclusions based on the most likely answer, if not pure logic.

            If the fact that the church hierarchy always travel first class if not private, are billeted only in 5 star lodgings, and are treated like rock stars wherever they go, while the unwashed masses walk to church, can barely keep body and soul together, yet are commanded to pay tithing nonetheless, if these things do not bother you one bit, and if you do not see the duplicity of these men who are anything BUT Christ-like, then you deserve to be sentenced to that church forever.

          • Sir.

            I have already seen many people receive all “these things” for free. Many of whom never even paid tithing. I have seen all levels of Church hierarchy from the local ward to the Church Office building and see good honest hardworking people throughout. I realize it is hard for many to think that The Church is not corrupt but from what I have personally observed, The Church is not corrupt.

            On a second note. I do not tithe so I can be afforded some blessing or some future assistance that I want. I pay it because it is a true principle. https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/mal/3.10?lang=eng
            https://www.lds.org/topics/tithing?lang=eng

            Actually the Bishops would not deny you a temple recommend if you told him you pay a full tithe. Even if you contributed no money at all. They will ask you if you pay a full tithe, just as they will ask you if you live the Law of Chastity, Observe the Word of Wisdom, ask you if you treat your spouse correctly and are not abusive etc…. The temple recommend questions are not what get you in to the temple. Your being right with God gets you in to the temple. The questions are simply markers that humans can use to kinda see how you are doing with God as God does require much.

            I am sure you could tell a lot of stories about tithing. However my point stands if you felt in good conscious you were right with God in the way of tithes and never paid a cent to The Church, then told the Bishop “I pay a full tithe” he would not deny you a temple recommend. He isn’t going to ask you for your bank statements…

            I have also heard that either Marriott or Huntsman had given Monson access to a private jet that is probably true. You would need to show me where they only fly first class and only stay at 5 star hotels. Many of the times apostles came to my mission they stayed with the mission president and his wife in their home.

            (Side note flying first class or staying in a nice hotel wouldn’t be uncommon for a private sector person running an multibillion dollar organization. To think that flying around all over the world or living in an out of hotels is some type of luxury or glamours life style simply shows that you have never done this. It absolutely sucks, even if you fly first class.)

  • How we do.

    This quote “Zina is a leftist, and wholly dedicated to that religion, and one cannot serve two masters.” Comes from Someone called Loren Blood. Their Facebook profile can be found here; https://www.facebook.com/loran.blood?fref=nf

    I think this person should be given exception to inclusion in this post here due to what is probably a mental illness and serious anger issues. This person recently linked a compilation of what is probably close to a 100 different quotes from exmormons on why they left the church to Dan ‘The Tapir wrangler’ Peterson’s page and is nitpicking these stand alone statements without actually making any valid points but to attack their character. I fell like it would be terrible if we had any attacks against this person – or laughs at their expense – only to find out that they weren’t all there.

    It seemed like they could piece a sentence together but on the internet no one knows you are a dog.

    • charles rivera

      “The Left” is a religion? Great head scratcher there.

  • Richard R. Lyman

    I need to read through my own website more often. This was hilarious. I didn’t realize people had such hard feelings toward us. Great post Zina!

  • charles rivera

    Wow, so many devoted Mormon fans! You lucky woman, you.

  • fides quaerens intellectum

    “we at Zelph are fascinated by every side of Mormonism,” except anything that paints it in a positive light. I’m with you; canonizing Joseph Smith and others as men who never did anything wrong in their whole lives (or worse, explaining away bad choices through weak excuses) is a prime example of what is wrong in mainstream mormonism. But demonizing them as men who never did anything good for anyone is just as dishonest. Can’t anyone make a blog that, I don’t know, maybe included both? I know that isn’t the point of yours, but a poor bored BYU student can lament. Thanks for the interesting articles though.

    • Zina Jacobs-Smith-Young

      We give credit where credit is due. But we also state that this is a site for exMormons.

    • charles rivera

      I agree with you. But it’s rather difficult to see past someone’s behavior when they black mail teen aged girls so that they can boink them secretly, then pretend it was God and an angel “with a flaming sword” all along who commanded him to boink the girls. The only “flaming sword” was something he couldn’t keep in his pants.

      • fides quaerens intellectum

        That’s the exact reason I refuse to see anything good in Thomas Jefferson’s life/legacy. I mean, who could ever look past slave ownership AND sleeping with your slave! There is NOTHING of value to be learned from TJ, because his behavior in that one part of life RUINED everything else forever and always.

        The same could be said to lesser or greater extents (and for different reasons) of Ben Franklin, Andrew Jackson, Abe Lincoln… All of them violated key moral codes, so therefore they are all useless to students of history or morality.

        Lovely logic. Please, continue.

        • charles rivera

          Fine argument, there. Let’s include Mahatma Gandhi, who slept with his niece and devised “sex experiments” with youth. Oh, and toss in Martin Luther King, Jr, who was a horrible husband.

          But TJ, or any of the men you list, never promised that his is the only true way to salvation/eternal life/exaltation/good policy/perfect politics for the price of 10% of your income. They are known and recognized for their singular achievements and rallying points, not that their lives were to be emulated. Did these men exalt themselves above Jesus as Smith did? No. Difference, difference.

          • fides quaerens intellectum

            My original post: “I wish people would acknowledge both the good and bad in Joseph instead of just the bad and ignoring the good because of the bad.”

            Your original response, in my words (please correct me if I’m wrong): “I agree that it is wrong to only paint the negative side of the story. But I can’t see to any good in Joseph’s story because his behavior was so poor!”

            My response, in my own words (I’ll correct myself if I’m wrong): “There are still good things to learn from a lot of people who had poor behavior.”

            Your response, yet again, in my words: “Yeah, like Gandhi and MLK! But this still doesn’t apply to Joseph Smith, because his behavior was so poor and I don’t believe in his claims.”

            My response, in my own body language: *Head scratching to determine where the logic train left the rails*

          • charles rivera

            Here’s the crux of the argument: “But demonizing them [i.e. Joseph Smith] as men who never did anything good for anyone is just as dishonest.” <— dishonest.

            My response was it is difficult to get past whatever good Smith did because his horrific behavior far outweighed it.

            You then painted a false analogy by expressing your unwillingness to subscribe to whatever Jefferson, Franklin, Jackson, and Lincoln did because they were morally bankrupt in some way. Don't be shy about it, your comment was sarcastic and I get that.

            But let's set aside the fact that you compared the so-called prophet with the founding fathers/secular men.

            Anyone can choose to believe, disbelieve, counter argue, or dismiss anything the founding fathers said or did without repercussions. Mormons cannot do or say the same of Smith without being marked as apostate and possibly be cut off from their congregation. Difference.

            No one is required to hold the founding fathers/ those secular men in high esteem or reverence: you can write anything you want about them and no one will bat a lash because they have never set themselves up as models of good behavior. Smith, OTOH, set himself up for failure by claiming he was 1) at par with Christ, and 2) the only guy through whom Mormons can receive exaltation.

            Difference.

  • Arwen Undomiel

    When people cannot prove they are right, they use personal attacks. That is pitiful.

    Great blog. I enjoy reading your posts here.

  • Not every mormon is mean and rude to you… I like you guys even though you’re gone.

    I think it would be better and more genuine just to use your real name. I haven’t even tried to figure out who Zina is to know that she is actually Samantha L. S. Once you’re on the internet you can never go back so just enjoy the spotlight. Having said that I no longer use the Youtube channel of my name because of anti’s and death threats to my children…. Okay you can use the pseudonym!

    • Zina Jacobs-Smith-Young

      I’ve been very open about who Zina is. It’s simply an SEO decision for personal career reasons living in Utah.

  • Not every mormon is mean and rude to you… I like you guys.

    I think it would be better and more genuine just to use your real name. I haven’t even tried to figure out who Zina is to know that she is actually Samantha L. S. Once you’re on the internet you can never go back so just enjoy the spotlight. Having said that I no longer use the Youtube channel of my name because of anti’s and death threats to my children…. Okay you can use the pseudonym!

  • Shawn Powrie

    As we all know, ad hominem attacks can reveal deep personal insecurities…

  • Carol Meng Hogan

    On the whole, Mormons who engage in Mormon “apologetics” are very mean-spirited persons. If you go over to CARM you’ll see for yourself. Recently the Mormons were asked if they’d hand over their wife to Monson if he asked for her – either the answer was “yes,” or silence. You can’t beat the Mormon cult for mind control tactics.

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  • Swagner

    I love how american conservatism as become completely intertwined with the LDS church, especially considering how at-odds they were a century ago. You know, back when Brigham Young had people praying for god to take vengeance against the United States for killing Joseph Smith, and considering how the rest of conservative America tends to perceive Mormons (I’ve never heard anyone but a republican defend governor Boggs’ extermination order, for example). I think that my move towards libertarianism precipitated my leaving the church, because that was when I started to become skeptical of any authoritarian, not just ones “on the wrong team”.


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